Ranked Vengeful (Developing a rating system based on per game player ranking) Discussion

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#202

Mafia picking who gets more elo at town cross voting each other sux fix plz

#203

waiting on a couple confirms, in the meanwhile I think I have a broader fix for the voting scenarios that works in general that i’ll post tonight

#204

Okee dokee here are our changes:

The mafia lylo “kingmaker” scenario is extendable to some other cases. Consider the potential end of day one votecount:

T1: T2, M1, M2
T2: T1, T3

The scumteam effectively “kingmade” T2 despite the fact that T2 actually recieved more votes from his fellow town members. As such we’re adjusting the negative points from being lynched into receiving negative points based on how many town are voting you at the end of the day. Note in the above example this means T2 actually performs worse than T1 and in the 3p lylo cross-vote scenario, the two town perform equally bad.

Another amusing corner case for why using getting lynched on its own is a bad idea:

T1: M1, M2
T2: T1, T3
T3: T2
Mafia breaks tie so T1 dies

Note that in vengeful the probability of voting correctly and shooting correctly is always 50%, so our numbers can be a lot nicer. This doesn’t necessarily hold in general setups (i.e. not all correct votes are created equal, consider the 2v5 setup where d1 the chance of correctness is 1/3 and d2 it could be 1/2 or 1/5.)

Correct Vote: +4
Incorrect Vote: -4
Correct Shot: +2
Incorrect Shot: -2
Each town voting you at end of day: -1
If you were voting Mafia at end of day and either mafia were lynched that day: +2

Note, the score values here are arbitrary and calibrated to generate good relative ranks. The number itself is meaningless outside of trying to be not worse than other players. The shot/succesfully lynching mafia while voting mafia numbers were chosen in such a way to make sure that suicidal plays didn’t do better on average than non-suicidal plays.

Quick table (which includes some hilarious corner cases and almost impossibilities) to illustrate some of the possible scores:

D1 V1 Sh D2 V2 D1M D2M
Hit Mdies Hit 4 0 4 0 2 2 12
Hit Mdies Hit 4 -1 4 0 2 2 11
Hit Mdies Hit 4 -2 4 0 2 2 10
Hit Mdies Hit 4 0 4 -1 2 9
Hit Mdies Hit 4 -1 4 -1 2 8
Hit Mdies Hit 4 -2 4 -1 2 7
Hit lynched Hit 4 0 2 6
Hit Shot 4 0 2 6
Hit Game Over 4 0 2 6
Hit lynched Hit 4 -1 2 5
Hit Shot 4 -1 2 5
Hit Game Over 4 -1 2 5
Hit lynched Hit 4 -2 2 4
Hit Shot 4 -2 2 4
Hit Game Over 4 -2 2 4
Hit lynched Miss 4 0 -2 2
Hit Mdies Miss 4 0 -4 0 2 2
Miss Mdies Hit -4 0 4 0 2 2
Hit lynched Miss 4 -1 -2 1
Hit Mdies Miss 4 0 -4 -1 2 1
Hit Mdies Miss 4 -1 -4 0 2 1
Miss Mdies Hit -4 -1 4 0 2 1
Hit lynched Miss 4 -2 -2 0
Hit Mdies Miss 4 -1 -4 -1 2 0
Hit Mdies Miss 4 -2 -4 0 2 0
Miss Mdies Hit -4 -2 4 0 2 0
Hit Mdies Miss 4 -2 -4 -1 2 -1
Miss Mdies Hit -4 0 4 -1 -1
Miss lynched Hit -4 0 2 -2
Miss Mdies Hit -4 -1 4 -1 -2
Miss lynched Hit -4 -1 2 -3
Miss Mdies Hit -4 -2 4 -1 -3
Miss lynched Hit -4 -2 2 -4
Miss Shot -4 0 -4
Miss Game Over -4 0 -4
Miss Shot -4 -1 -5
Miss Game Over -4 -1 -5
Miss lynched Miss -4 0 -2 -6
Miss Shot -4 -2 -6
Miss Game Over -4 -2 -6
Miss lynched Miss -4 -1 -2 -7
Miss Mdies Miss -4 0 -4 0 -8
Miss lynched Miss -4 -2 -2 -8
Miss Mdies Miss -4 -1 -4 0 -9
Miss Mdies Miss -4 0 -4 -1 -9
Miss Mdies Miss -4 -2 -4 0 -10
Miss Mdies Miss -4 -1 -4 -1 -10
Miss Mdies Miss -4 -2 -4 -1 -11
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Vengeful 2
#205

tldr:

Try to be voting mafia.
If you’re voting mafia AND mafia dies that day you get bonus points (either mafia!).
You lose points when town votes you.
You get some points back if you shoot right.

#206

This piece ensures self lynch is still potentially the best way to play for 1st place

#207

Elli:

Pretty sure it doesn’t. How?

#208

Getting shot != mafia dying that day for clarity. Meant lynched.

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#209

What is != mean

#210

Not equal

1 Like
#211

Hit or miss means hit or miss scum lynch , no idea what d1 v1 sh v2 d1m d2m means tho

#212

So… do mafia just not get any points?

#213

points only dictate relative placement, so you can say maf always get sup or inf.

#214

Ok, but what about a player’s all-time points?

And what about Neutrals?

#215

No neutrals in vengeful

#216

Are we not developing a general ranking System?

#217

No that would be different since power roles might be in the play

#218

points are irrelevant for anything other than relative ranking

#219

We’re developing a system for a set of game types. That won’t include neutrals.

#220

i wasn’t expecting to get a 5th quickly oops

im good for a game

#221

Well this changes things