I don’t think anyone was suggesting you were being unreasonable afaik
you’re on two votes and I suppose your wagon could be hammered soon(ish) with mantis/cats/MS in the mix
what is interesting is that pyx asked the question about how much time you needed to be back online, made noises about having time to spare etc, but has left a vote on you anyway
^sorry, cats and MS. I forgot mantis was already on your wagon
I’m curious as to why this is coming back up again. I explained this in #371. If you have issues with my explanation, you can let me know. Trying to be friendly to start the game was clearly a mistake apparently.
I was trying to come up with a reasoned argument against this, but I can’t. This is just your perception of my turnaround on Srceen that day. If you, however, find me to be earnest Town otherwise, I am a bit surprised that you do not give me the benefit of the doubt here. I tried my hardest to figure Srceen out - clearly, he made it difficult. I mean, I was not the only one that made that mistake, or thought that Srceen was Scum (after all, you voted for him multiple times). All I’ll say is that me changing my views in particular when I didn’t really have to, or when I could have easily dragged it for longer, should give you some comfort that I am constantly reworking my views to figure out who the Scum is. I was not worried about how it would look. I simply wanted to get a better sense as to whether Srceen was actually Town or not.
Now, my position on Nanook was shaky at the beginning, sure (that guy, despite being abrasive, is actually good at making himself look Town). But I consistently listed him as Scum after #1076, where I put him on blast, and would have voted for him had there been more support from other Town (see #1145, #1269, #1608).
Yeah, and I could be doing this passively, as you are arguing. Except I am not really doing that, and continue to list my Scum reads and explain why I see things a certain way.
This is another perception I can’t really fight. However, I will say this - if the game looks hard, and it really is hard to figure out who the last remaining Scum is, then why would I push hard on anyone in particular. I mean, there are multiple players who have come out and said that there are a lot of players that have very many positives and negatives. Which is why I want to re-read D3 - I need to figure out how to balance some of the things that have happened.
This could easily have been frustration at Cats’ useless Scum buddy. But again, I am confused as to why you are prizing certainty so much. If reading people and votes was easier, then surely you would see me being more proactive. But the more obvious Scum (obvious enough that he was vigged) in Nanook was gone D1, and the other Scum was mostly absent, so the connections are hard, which I already analyzed.
This is NAI for me. Judge is Town in my mind for various other reasons.
I do not think that sticking out for MS in the 1 v. 1 with Cabd was “unnecessary”. It creates Town cred for Urist. Besides, any good Scum would know that Cabd was on borrowed time after that Claim, particularly if MS flips Town. And how was he going to maintain the ruse? The minute that they make another Town player say sleepwalk (if that is truly a Scum power), and then Cabd points to that player, you know something fishy is going on. Pointing at anybody else means that there is an enormous risk that Cabd unintentionally clears that player, if he gets the Night Action wrong.
This is what I am talking about specifically. Cats is almost palpably anxious to get me lynched.
ah, I missed that
I think I should slap myself around a bit and stop reading others based on what things I personally would/wouldn’t do as scum
I will watch with interest to see if cats now jumps on your wagon
These are my thoughts from re-reading D3:
@Urist, can you remind me: why did you assume that Judge was Quark in #3141? @Mental you claimed your character in #3201. In #3204, Urist comes out and says that he is a racecop and that he investigated you N2, and figured out that you were a Ferengi. Now, since this is clearly not a lie (otherwise you would have been arguing incessantly to lynch Urist), this makes you the closest to Confirmed Town in this game. I believe this because (i) either Urist is actually a racecop (and has correctly identified that your race matches your character, which means you are not Scum), or Urist is Scum and knows your alignment (in which case, he can freely confirm that you are Town by googling your character and stating what race it is). Now, he crumbed that he knew your race (by stating your potential Character’s name before your claim, though he got it slightly wrong), so here I am now leaning towards believing Urist’s claim. I have two issues with the claim though - the fact that Urist was blocked N1 is rather convenient, and that he investigated the NK N3. Might be more of a coincidence than anything, but still.
However, I think Urist is definitely worth leaving to sort another day, as he has not claimed that there are any limitations on his investigative powers, so he can readily clear another Town player (if the race matches the character claimed, except for Pyx that is, and the character fits with the overall battle between the Pah-wraiths and the Prophets [yes, I read a bit of Star Trek wiki to get a better feel for this]). Now that I think about this - Urist, do NOT inform anybody who you will investigate. Otherwise, the Scum will simply know who to NK (since you will have cleared them). On second thought, this might make one of Cats and I truly suspicious, and might explain the NK (since you had decided to check between Josh and I, and you remember almost giving away the fact that you would check Josh’s race).
Also note, Urist, you had agreed that Josh was probably cleared since his Night Action clearly did not target MS, who had been Roleblocked (and there was most likely only one Night Action left, see #3259 and #3315). Why did you insist so strongly at the Temple that I not steal another Orb? I was actually thinking of targeting you that Night, which would have confirmed me as Town (though left you out of the Temple). Hm.
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I understand those players that maybe were doubting Srceen’s claim and ended up voting for him. But you posted this. And still voted for him.
And later, this:
And even later, still:
…
…
…
…
Oh wow man, I can’t believe you went back on this after all these posts. You know why this isn’t hard proof of Scum though? Because I, as Scum, literally accused Urist of doing exactly this in Flip Flappers (going back against a stated plan). It was closer to the deadline though - your vote certainly was not.
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I sometimes look back and feel ashamed I read things a certain way. I am sure you look back at this and think the same.
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WHY DID I NOT LISTEN!
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Highlighting this to make the point that it cannot be a Scum tell for me and not for Cats, but since there’s probably only one Scum left, maybe not as relevant as you have it in your head.
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[This is to Cats]. I am glad you raised this.
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Srceen makes a good point here.
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This is still a good point. We should have driven this home more.
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Man, after this game is done, I will remind you you once said this haha
And you!
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Hahaha maybe?
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Do you need any better proof that being certain of something this game is not always a good idea?
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So after all of your posts, you sheep Mantis here? You also sheeped me at the end of the day.
So here is the first written explanation for your switch. Given what you had been arguing thus far, I think this is suspicious. It’s not good logic. And I don’t want to lynch players this game because I think they would help sort others. It also clearly did not work - you seem to be arguing for my lynch instead of Urist!
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Maybe we should actually follow this now.
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I am done for today. I will keep reading from #3719 onwards tomorrow.
I’ll also park my vote here for now:
VOTE: Catspurr
My scumreads weren’t and will never be final. Nothing to be ashamed about
Yeah, I know. I just had a good laugh, that’s all.
Also, updated reads list based on my re-read so far of D3:
Strong Town Reads, Would Not Lynch:
{Judge Mental}
Town Reads:
{Metal Sonic, Mantis}
Neutral [Would like to sort later, given Claims]:
{Urist, Pyx}
Negative Lean, Would Lynch:
{Cats}
How can you push someone as Scum, saying we need to sort between the two [Srceenplay, Urist], but also say this? Seems you know something I don’t.
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Yeah, I know.
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I think this is you backing out of a mislynch you maybe felt was inevitable.
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Can you, maybe, re-read this and figure out why you initially thought this? Because it’s correct, and you’ll be upset once I flip and you go back to this.
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And you seem quite intent on taking the credit for Cabd. It doesn’t clear you, since all the people completely out of the wagon have now been mostly eliminated [Josh, Srceenplay].
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You know, I thought this too. But maybe Cats just hesitated? I know I did it. Cats was maybe hoping the wagon would disintegrate without them on it, but then it didn’t happen and they were off? I don’t want to see everything Cats did as Scummy, but red flags keep jumping at me for whatever reason.
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Can you explain why you argued this again?
It certainly upset Cats:
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You really pushed hard for this, huh?
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Hahaha should we do this in reverse order?
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And here’s the cover for the vote on Srceenplay.
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And that’s it for D3.
Yeah, if you guys want to vote for me, you can do it now. I at least wanted to get those thoughts out there. It helped me at least.
Oh and I’m traveling all day today, but will try and connect (very) late tomorrow. If you want to ask me something, it’ll have to wait a bit.
Actually there’s a two hour window there that I might check back. So not completely disconnected.
I actually agree that some things that cats have said have been pretty scummy. But is he capable of faking the towny stuff he has done as scum so far?
If he wasn’t capable, he would have been lynched already (and ahead of Srceen). Anybody who is still around is capable. That’s kind of the point.
That’s not true. It’s not hard for many people to be capable of looking town as town. Which is… different from being capable of looking town as scum, which is faking it.
Screen was just less capable of looking town as town
To win as scum, the job is literally to look more town than actual town. That is the win condition.
UNVOTE: Andres
VC 4-20
pyx: 2 (Judge Mental, catspurr)
catspurr: 2 (Urist, Andresvmb)
Andresvmb: 1 (Mantis)
Urist: 1 (Metal Sonic)
Not voting: 1 (pyx)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline: September 15, 2018 4:00 AM
This topic will close automatically 30 minutes after the deadline.
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Day 1 Start: Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!
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Day 3 Start: Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!
Day 4 Start: Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!