Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!

[Urist]

Peppery

[pyx]

All right, let’s talk about me some more.

a role cop would just see “pyx is a miller”. It would defeat the purpose of him being a miller because it would confirm him as town…

parsec and I have made it clear that, “my role appears guilty to alignment cops even though I am aligned with prophets”. That requires an alignment detector not a role detector. A Rolecop would not necessarily see “pyx is a miller”, because that’s not in my role PM. And forgive me again, I personally don’t like talking of role PMs or claiming unnecessarily - I think the game should be solvable the old fashioned way - though I agree that Millers claiming right from the start is how best to play that role. And I say a Rolecop wouldn’t necessarily see “pyx is a miller” because maybe they would or could, but if I don’t have a role title I don’t see how a Rolecop would be given it instead of me, upon investigation.

I do think that what parsec’s has revealed at least tells us there’s likely no Mafia Cop (Mafia Alignment Cop), since I would appear as guilty. Or that at least were there that role it would be redundant regarding me.

And for a TL;DR version of the above, here’s the convo around the parsec claim. It was that reread that had me reevaluate Andres and Urist (no, not the populat law firm), liking Andres better and starting to doubt Urist (I probably should add that parsec took an opposite view).

[And please bear with me - the formatting and preview on this site drives me absolutely bonkers!!]

Summary

[spoiler]

Hey everyone. Claiming now that my role appears guilty to alignment cops even though I am aligned with prophets.

Parsec it seems like you have some experience playing mafia elsewhere, can you link to a previous mafia site where you played?

How does it appear if you’re lynched?

Parsec, why didn’t you describe your role as a miller? It’s standard terminology

After reading some theory, it looks like you have played the role optimally, so I’m not going to question this too much. If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right? Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie? Does that mean that we should expect to see you NK’ed N1? Lots of questions, I know.

Even without a counter-claim, it’s still possible that parsec is lying scum. Miller isn’t a super common or popular role so I don’t think it’s a risky claim, although it does fit a certain character pretty well.

> If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right?

The answer to this is an unequivocal yes. Don’t worry about the rest of the questions in that paragraph.

And why are you answering for Parsec? You should let him tackle the questions I posed, and decide whether some of them are worth answering or not. As I stated, I don’t play many games with a lot of roles, so I haven’t encountered a Miller role. It’s not out of the question that Scum would fakeclaim Miller, from what I read, but in my head it seems unlikely that’s what we’re getting here.

With regard to parsec, there are times when answering certain questions no matter the answer will not benefit town; this is one such time.

Nanook: How does it appear if you’re lynched?

As part of my role.

Which character are you?

Andresvmb: Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie?

Even without a counter-claim, it’s still possible that parsec is lying scum. Miller isn’t a super common or popular role so I don’t think it’s a risky claim, although it does fit a certain character pretty well.

Andresvmb: After reading some theory, it looks like you have played the role optimally, so I’m not going to question this too much. If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right? Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie? Does that mean that we should expect to see you NK’ed N1? Lots of questions, I know.

@Andresvmb - have you played mafia before? (on this site or elsewhere?)

yep, millers ought to claim in their first post

at this time i don’t think it’s beneficial to either treat him as a named townie or to worry about whether he’s scum fake-claiming. in general play >>>> role and i don’t think we ought to judge parsec’s alignment either way because of his role, but rather based on how he plays.

Andres: As I stated, I don’t play many games with a lot of roles, so I haven’t encountered a Miller role. It’s not out of the question that Scum would fakeclaim Miller, from what I read, but in my head it seems unlikely that’s what we’re getting here.

Can’t say whether it’s likely or not at this point, but fwiw, scum fake claiming Miller is a thing that would happen on my home site. Also not sure how that translates to the meta here, if at all.

I have a far out, radical idea, that will most likely be shot down, but I think if we pursued it en masse it could win us the game (or at the very least, help us tremendously).

Mass reveals.

[There’s a lot of discussion that follows on this, all of which is against Nanook’s proposal. I just include his suggestion to show where I think it originated, in connection to parsec’s reveal.]

addendum: Parsec name claiming is fine.

There’s varied thinking on Miller’s from what I can tell - some people think that they can clear themselves quickly, which would obviate the need to claim and distract away from focusing on the play. Obviously if that person is investigated, you end up with a near certain lynch, but you might end there regardless. However, if we are taking the name at face value, why would we not assume that Parsec is a Prophet?

[After been away a good little while (~16hrs, and like the whole Screen fake-claim), parsec answers Urist’s request of a name claim]

Elim Garak

ActionDan: Parsec, why didn’t you describe your role as a miller? It’s standard terminology

I didn’t know if you used that terminology. Probably would have still been some people here who didn’t know what it meant.

After re-reading I don’t feel very good about my earlier vote on Urist. I still don’t like #46, but I like many of his other posts.

I find Andres’ concerns fake and don’t like the way he is approaching the game

Given your Miller claim, I am trying really hard to get you to help Town and look past me. If you can’t, it is what it is, but you will forgive me if I ignore most of what you say.

[quote=parsec]

i think one of josh/urist is wolf because of the way they attack each others’ play while also calling each other wolves

i think it is a wolfy behavior from both of you but unlikely you are both wolves
[/quote][/spoiler]

[pyx]

And FWIW, all the players from MR know for certain that Miller is pretty common from where we hail, and they know very well, or should, that GM mechanics (not just from myself) on our experimental sites and sister sites could very well be just as the GM here has described and I have previously mentioned.

Deep Space Nine Mafia - 13 of 13 players (Game has begun!)

The game will be role-heavy and may have some unusual hidden or public mechanics.

We certainly don’t have a bastard setup I wouldn’t think, but It would NOT be unusual for the GM to include certain roles some players are excluding in trying to tool or work through game mechanics of which we yet know little. Any shading based on mechanics speculation at this point seems highly suspect to me, even if those using it are claiming such to FOS myself or others. I don’t at all mind trying to sort claims, though we know some have certainly been fake, but trying at this point to solve the balance of the game mechanics with what we have would appear to me as only encouraging the very thing everyone of us was againt from Scum!Nanook yesterday, of mass claiming.

There is absolutely no need to try and solve game mechanics or roles beyond the ones presently claimed.

[Urist]

I don’t really get the point you’re trying to make here.

[pyx]

I think you do. But let’s say I believe you. What is it you think I’m being unclear about? 'Cause if you aren’t mafia, if, you’re doing a bang-up job of trying to lose this for town.

[Andresvmb (Andrés)]

I am starting to think that the Cabd/MS claims are creating too many issues for Town to move forward, and we need to resolve this.

Cabd should be able to prove that his claim is true as the game moves along. If he can’t, his time will surely run out. If he leads to Town more than once, then surely he’ll be lynched. If he starts claiming that his powers are all of a sudden useless, then he should be lynched too. I wouldn’t worry too much about him right now.

I think it probably makes sense to vote for MS unfortunately. I say unfortunately because I defended MS D1 thinking that Judge was trying to avoid mislynching there with a rationale that did not make sense (and was thus, Scum clearing Town). MS’ explanation introduces way too many variables that all have to be true for them to not have NK’ed _fferyllt. This is creating issues for anybody thinking about the balance of the game. I am also more inclined to believe Parsec’s/Pyx’s claim over MS’, since MS’ claim is reactionary, whereas Pyx’s claim is optimal. Those are my thoughts.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Urist]

Ok, I see that the point you’re really trying to push, and that you’ve been bringing up repeatedly for a while now, is that you’re town because you know the town role PMs don’t include the role name (i.e. miller).
I don’t really see how this would make you town. ffery is a consistent person, I’m sure the scum role PMs are the same way. And I’m sure the scum have safeclaims.
The fact that you keep bringing this up hoping that someone picks up on it and is like “pyx is town lol” is scummy. The fact that you use the rolecop conversation as a vector to insert another i-don’t-know-my-role attempt is scummy.
When I said I didn’t get the point you were trying to make, I was trying to be nice and assume that you’re town. Do you want to try again?

[Urist]

Did you see my 2541? Do you think that scum have only one PR?

[Andresvmb (Andrés)]

No, I don’t. It’s likely the 2 (?) remaining Scum have Power Roles. But speculating about it and everybody’s roles is hurting Town more than it’s helping. Because sure, we might be able to figure out what roles have been handed out. But we might be wrong, and start making assumptions about other players based on potential roles instead of looking at their play. And there just haven’t been enough flips to confirm any of the speculation.

From where I sit, I would rather actually flip players based on their interactions with Nanook and what makes sense. But it doesn’t look like we are, so I want this resolved now.

[Urist]

From where I sit, I would also like to lynch the people who I find scummy, but you’re not really trying to do that.
Please don’t vote MS just because you think other people aren’t going to drop the claim nonsense. You’re giving up, and that’s lame.
I was thinking last night that I was disappointed that we haven’t had the chance to work together this game as much as I would have liked. Work with me now. You agree that pyx is scummy, right? I definitely think that his lynch is attainable, and I definitely think it’s too early for you to be calling it a lost cause. Let’s lynch the guy we think is scummy, rather than just lynching MS because it’s the easy thing.

[pyx]

Ok, I see that the point you’re really trying to push, and that you’ve been bringing up repeatedly for a while now, is that you’re town because you know the town role PMs don’t include the role name (i.e. miller).
I don’t really see how this would make you town. ffery is a consistent person, I’m sure the scum role PMs are the same way. And I’m sure the scum have safeclaims.
The fact that you keep bringing this up hoping that someone picks up on it and is like “pyx is town lol” is scummy. The fact that you use the rolecop conversation as a vector to insert another i-don’t-know-my-role attempt is scummy.
When I said I didn’t get the point you were trying to make, I was trying to be nice and assume that you’re town. Do you want to try again?

Who else thinks that was my point? Anyone? Anyone?

[Andresvmb (Andrés)]

Yeah I mean you’re partly right, in that MS isn’t my first choice as Scum in this game. And I agree that Pyx might flip Scum. But I also think that the way that MS has handled Cabd’s claim presents way too many issues that need solving. It’s a compromise I am okay with. I don’t think it is a horrible lynch by any stretch.

It would also help sort Judge in my mind, and will help sort you more decisively. And those are key to this game.

[Urist]

The way Cabd has handled his own claim presents many issues that need resolving.
The thing is, if MS is town, I don’t know how he could have handled this in any other way. He could have fullclaimed, sure, but I don’t see how that would have changed things… we would still be in the same boat where he’s claiming to not target muffins.
Can you just trust me when I say that lynching MS at this point is not a great idea?

[fferyllt (fairlylit)]

VC 2-16

Metal Sonic: 3 (Josh, Judge Mental, Andresvmb)
pyx: 2 (Urist, Mantis)
Urist: 2 (Srceenplay, catspurr)
Judge Mental: 1 (Metal Sonic)

Not voting: 2 (pyx, Cabd)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: August 25, 2018 4:00 AM

This topic will close automatically 30 minutes after the deadline.

Mod Notes:

Links
Day 1 Start: Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!
Day 2 Start: Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!

[Andresvmb (Andrés)]

Okay, so I understand you clearly, under what circumstances would it make sense to lynch MS? If you think this information is not helpful to disclose now, then don’t answer the question and we can discuss if we’re all around D3, potentially after Cabd has had another night to use his powers and discloses his findings (and after MS is able to use whatever Night Action they have). I am obviously assuming that Scum will have to make a choice and won’t be able to block both. At the end of the day, I do believe we’re going to have to sort this out because potentially having them both in Mylo would be silly (having this conversation ad nauseam for the rest of the game will make me want to die).

And you do realize that if I follow you onto Pyx now (as do others), and you are wrong, that it will be very hard for me to trust you in this game right? You are basically gambling that your view of the game is correct and that Pyx is Scum. Because if he’s not, you are unlikely to last very long.

[cabd]

Two thiings.

One, I’m fully catching up shortly, once I go on lunch break.

Secondly, hold the fucking presses, is this a fucking dreamwalker game?

[Urist]

Okay, so I understand you clearly, under what circumstances would it make sense to lynch MS?

I don’t think it ever makes sense to lynch MS. But yeah, we can discuss it further on d3. At this point I really doubt that I’m gonna be nk’d.
I realize that I’m gonna get in shit if pyx is not scum. But remember that I’m only asking you to trust me that MS is town. I’m not asking you to trust me that pyx is scum; I’m not 100% sold on pyxScum, but I do think he’s our best chance at hitting scum today.
Really, all I’m asking you to do is consider your options and not get frustrated by the confusing claim bullshit that Cabd and MS have made way more complicated than it needed to be.

[Srceenplay]

TMI

[Josh]

or hes a strongman, or x shot. theres a lot of possibilities.

[Josh]

irrelevant. his immediate reaction should be at least some hesitation, he didnt attack cabd at all.