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more balls than anyone who liked has
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andreas is blatantly town. nsg is blatantly town. key is probably town. ms is possibly town. muffin is less possibly town. ali is probably scum.
scumās lurking because iām too terrifying i know
whereās town?
Eddie cane cAn be town
Can we kill alisae the confscum
I donāt know why you seem to think that I view the world in black and white. Perhaps this is a lesson for you: if I am stating that I cannot find a reason for an action, I am signaling that I view said action a certain way, but does not mean I am not open to an alternative explanation (and in fact would want to hear said alternative). I just tend to go with whatās most plausible. Sure, a scum player could have thought about how they would react in detail to a situation with an imploding Townie and come to the conclusion that to solidify their position, they needed to Unvote that person first before placing the final blow. The problem with this explanation is that from a strategic point of view, you gain at the margin while ultimately allowing the person to argue for themselves and potentially escape (which is downside you seem to think is not there).
Why do I think that your end of day interactions do not make sense? Now this is more of a perception, but you seemed to be toying with Katsuki. You had previously said that it would be easy for you to get Katsuki mislynched. And then, after practically achieving that objective by arguing forcefully for a read on how and when they declared their initial choice (which proved to be incorrect), you placed an Unvote almost to remind him that you had the ability to do exactly what happened. The whole thing just did not feel right.
You seem oddly unconcerned about lynching the wrong person here.
It sounds like I may be misunderstanding, but also that second part doesnāt really help me feel better because it sounds like scum perspective, not like youāre trying to lynch scum.
I had the opposite reaction to that catchup from Eddie. Seems like quite a lot of nothing. Though he did call you āpossibly townā, so I can see why youād be townreading him off it.
sorry iām here.
something iāve been thinking about is that people seem too alright with the group {alisae, eddie, metal sonic}. i know sometimes this kind of reasoning doesnāt work when the explanation is lurking scum or the explanation is just that scum were following that plan until the PoE got to them at which point they would start efforting, but that seems slightly unrealistic to me.
iām not exactly sure what conclusion iām meant to draw from that, though - zmuffinman and eddie being scum?
lol
luckily this setup is broken because of choosing mechanics!
i donāt think that downside is a real issue (or at least itās not one i worry about when iām scum). itās pretty easy to twist words if you need to or make someone look worse if you choose the right approach. besides, people are prone to changing reads multiple times over the course of the game so having someone look town for a moment means very little and isnāt much of a threat
i suppose if iām scum, i value my own image more than any worries about whether someone else might also look town as the result of something i do. of course, if the lynch pool is limited, i might value having a larger lynch pool over my image, but ehā¦
thereās also the fact that while it allows a person to potentially make themselves look better, it also allows the person to potentially make themselves look worse. and when they look worse, it might incite others to vote and then i donāt even need to do the dirty work and they get lynched with me looking cleaner (i unvoted, after all!)
thereās a whole lot of theory that could be discussed in this regard, but the long and short of it is that you need to understand how others think about things before you can make conclusions about the likelihood of any given action coming from one alignment or the other
iām directly telling you that how you think about something like this is NOT how i think about something like this (which is true because either i am scum and thatās what actually happened or iām town and i donāt have any reason to lie to you about this)
just some food for thought going forward when youāre looking at what something is doing. thatās why it helps to ask questions to try to understand someoneās motivations
i unvoted for two reasons:
- two quick naked votes was not something i expected to happen and i wanted some time to think about what was going on (my gut reaction whenever i see votes pile onto someone without good reason in quick succession is to reassess)
- i wanted to hear from certain people who were MIA (specifically, i wanted to see how people like alisae, eddie, MS and cupcake himself reacted to the events unfolding)
to give a little more insight to what was happening at the end of D1, cupcake came and self-voted and did the whole āi give up, lynch meā thing and thereās a little history behind this because itās similar to something iāve done in the past in a game with him (i was town - heās referenced this game earlier on when he talked about having mislynched me as town before and i said stop taking credit for my achievements). i told him to stop being a muffin. he knew what i meant. he refused. i gave him another chance to opt out and try to work with me. he refused
i considered the possibility he was town but the situation here was: either heās scum gambiting by using a move he knows iāve done before and hoping to buy sympathy OR heās town whoās not going to be working with me anymore and doesnāt want to play (and if the latter were the case, i thought maybe i might have been responsible for that, which is why i apologised to him about the jokes possibly going overboard)
in either case, i figured he was better off out of the game BUT i especially didnāt want to let him off the hook if he was trying to use this tactic against me as scum. if it werenāt for the history behind it, i might have thought differently about how things played out, but i was pretty unwilling to let cupcake get away with it if he were scum so after giving him every opportunity to reconsider and seeing him refuse, i hammered. the other option was to wait and see if people bought it and unvoted and, well, in hindsight that might not have been so bad, but if he were scum and got away with that, i probably would have felt even worse for it
anywho, thatās just some insight into the thoughts that were running through my head at the end of yesterday
so far the only people who have said they are alright with this are alisae and i. metal sonic seems to be including me in his lynch pool. eddie has a single scum read (alisae) but it seems like iām his second choice. key is voting me. andre has issues with me. you also seem to disagree with that pool
btw, if i had to pick town out of {MS, eddie, alisae}, iād lean towards alisae
because youāve gotta stick up for your buddies! alisae is the only one thatās limiting the lynchpool in a way that actually hinders the scum win con (unless alisaeās partner isnāt in that pool)
plus playing connect4 seems like a pretty town-motivated thing to do
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|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|Oh no an enemy has appeared!
We have to fight together to stop it!
I am having such a hard time separating between MS and Alisae. They both clearly believe the other one is scum, which makes perfect sense since they are the last two players alive to have come out and said to have picked scum and not gotten it. That also means that at least one of the players that claimed to have picked Town is lying. Which is nothing new - I speculated that the incentive did not make sense and here we are.
@_fferyllt, you have two players (Key, Katsuki), one of which is confirmed Townie, that were/are fairly certain that you are scum, to the point of staking their games on it. I think this matters a great deal. Iāll add this, if, for whatever reason, we lynch you and find out that you were Town, then Key would have to go next (I can detail why if needed, but it should be obvious to anyone paying attention). I would go as far as to say that, if you flipped Town, then we would be stupid to not lynch Key. But my read of Key thus far is that she is Town, which is why we find ourselves where we are. Also, I am surprised you didnāt just turn around and vote for Key (which maybe I would have done if I was in your shoes).
In case it wasnāt obvious, I also have the view that northsidelegal is Town (I see no reason thus far to be more skeptical).
Also, I do not think that lynching one of Alisae or MS at this moment is particularly beneficial from a big picture point of view (unless anybody believes that they are both scum, in which case we might be screwed).
@Josh, @northsidegal, I need more of your thoughts on the situation we find ourselves in.
no problem! i heard Bs are afraid of water (even though google tells me iām wrong, i guess weāll soon find out)
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|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|i think youāre overstating keyās confidence, but i may be wrong!
i donāt think it matters that someone thinks iām scum (except insofar as iād prefer not being lynched so i donāt want too many people to think that!)
why someone thinks iām scum is much more important, since that helps me understand their perspective
town players are wrong all the time. iām not sure where your expectation comes from
VOTE: Alisae
VC 2.2
Alisae (2): Metal Sonic, Josh
Josh (1): Alisae
muffins (1): Key
Not Voting (3): muffins, northsidegal, Andresmvb
Deadline is May 28, 2018 5:43 PM (Europe: Paris), May 28, 2018 8:43 AM (America: Los Angeles)
WITH 7 ALIVE IT TAKES 4 TO LYNCH
? Weird.
I donāt stake my games on my reads as a general rule. What makes you think I have here, or that Iām particularly certain?
Like I can see why youād say that about Katsuki swearing blind that muffin is scum, and to some extent thatās influencing my read, but I donāt think Iāve been going at this push as hard as you seem to think.