Hi Ranmaru. Welcome to Mafia451!
I’ll have a read through your game and get back with my thoughts either this weekend or Monday.
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Analysis for @Ranmaru
Game: White Flag Mafia
I thought the catch-up posts and reads lists were good. They looked town to me, which is at least half the battle in a mountainous game. You looked assertive in terms of asking players for content - reads lists, asking them for thoughts on other players, etc, but it became pretty repetitive, and other players began to react like they were finding your playstyle and pushes obnoxious (postie at the start of day 2 is a good example of this). The ratio of requests for data versus doing something with the data seemed a little off. It could have been happening outside the game thread, maybe?
I liked that you tried to take on some leadership on day 1 a la post 828 and 835. Did you feel like you were successful?
You weren’t the only person dogpiling srceenplay, but your demands for content from him while continuing to vote him and voicing that he was the best lynch wasn’t going to get him to cooperate with you if he was town. It’s hard to say, of course, but giving him a little bit of slack at that point could have encouraged him to do something besides fight his lynch. As either alignment more content would have been good, but if he was scum even the illusion that your read was softening might have meant some associations hitting the thread.
This was an interesting post. It looked like a srceen townflip wouldn’t change your opinions about your other scumreads, so these reads were independent of each other.
Looking at your day 2 reads, they changed a lot. Your read on postie did a 180 between late day 1 and the start of day 2, for example. You had different people as scum at different times, and to your credit you had every scum in your scumpile at different times, but seemed to be easily pushed away from scumreading the actual scum. Think about what they did to change your mind, and think about whether you gave them a roadmap for changing your mind via the way you presented your reads. Also, think about what contributed to your scumreads of town players and whether the reasons should have been considered scum-indicative.
This post would be a good one to look at in terms of scum-indicativeness since you kept coming back to a scumread on LQ at various points in the game.
How often do you catch scum by focusing on this kind of word choice? Did you have meta reasons to think that LQ was more likely to say “not scum” as one alignment vs another? Also this post has a fair bit of hectoring. “do you care about getting your reads right?” “I want your full reads list I asked for it and you never gave one”.
I feel like these kinds of repetitive requests for information, and then browbeating a player if they didn’t give you what you wanted in their next series of posts, added a lot of low-level content that wasn’t needed in order to form a read of you and may not have helped in forming reads of the players you interacted with, either.
Overall, you often tried to direct town - to put down votes, to consolidate votes, to vote your current scumread, to give reads, to answer questions, etc. But, at the same time, your reads changed a lot. So, if leading, you were switching directions a lot, and if not leading, you were making a lot of noise, not all of which was productive.
Do you feel confident in general about your reads accuracy and your ability to lead. Do you think that this game was anomalous for you? If not, maybe focus on one of those skills and hone it more before trying to do both at once. And try to consolidate your posting a little more. Out of your almost 900 posts in that game, a lot of them were one-liners, and some were repetitive. It’s tempting to respond to every little thing in game (I have a tendency to do this especially when I feel lost, trying to claw my way to some strong reads), but it can overwhelm your own most-meaningful content, as well as giving scum cover and an excuse to hide.
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It wasn’t happening outside thread, it’s mostly me. I guess I didn’t do much with Postie’s reads. On leadership, I feel I was slightly successful, mostly gaining votes onto LQ, but I’m glad that I stuck with Screen. I don’t know, I guess in my mind I thought ‘if he can’t explain why he must have faked it’. I did not have meta reasons, this was mostly why I was off and on with him. This was my first time playing with him. I guess I did seem like a jerk with that last request in that post haha.
I do not feel confident in my read accuracy. Usually they are average. My ability to lead, I am no too sure. I was just experimenting in that game. It was slightly anomalous for me, due to LQ (who confused me) and the setup and what tactics scum may try in it. (Cross voting, and being more likely to bus)
What do you feel are good ways to improve each skill? I will probably try improving on my reads first, those need improving. Then leading. I will also try to post less.
The thing that in some ways helped my reads accuracy was to look at posts that pinged scummy to me and see if they could have come from a town mindset: Part of that is the logic in the post, but the tone and emotional content also come into play. A player may have a stance that you know makes no sense, but you still think it’s a town mindset behind the stance (I’ll give an example from one of my games below).
Then you keep reevaluating based on the player’s body of work. You might have gotten a strong townsense from one post, but many of the player’s posts feel null, or too carefully written, or lacking conviction, etc. And you look back based on additional information - flips and associations with flipped scum, PR results (including results on other players that make you re-evaluate the game).
Here’s the example I was thinking about, where the player’s assumption was just wrong, but the conviction they expressed about the assumption looked town.
(removed the quote of my post because that was just painful. Just click this link to see the post.)
I was not successful in keeping Kagami from being lynched that day, but I was correct about her alignment.
(I was also correct about Gooner’s alignment. Go me!)
Yeah, got it. I think at some points I had been distracted away from scum, from mistakes town had made. (Example, lack of motivation)
Hihi! Can I has a review of ray bradbury mafiasies? FFERY SHOULD WRITE IT COS SHE WAS THE ONE THAT RAN THE GAME!!!
I’ll do this by Sunday at the latest.
Sorry for the delay Riley - I told ffery to hold for a bit since I’m making a video analysis of said game that I haven’t finished yet. Fault is mine - will be done soon.
It’s been a while but would I be able to get an analysis of Random GIFs from Team Mafia? I don’t mind who.
I’m particularly interested in how I could have played better later on in the game.
I’ll do this one. Give me until Wednesday.
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I’m the worst but ill do this tonight.
Edit: Opting for Monday because if I do it tonight you’ll get less than you deserve
Edit2: VOTE: chesskid
hahaha
review Ethers team mafia game
review alisaes game while you’re at it
tell me how the fuck I win that 9er I just lost
Neymar, I understand your frustration, but it was your inactive/absent scum partner that lost that game.
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I think PR hunting and using the strongman shot carefully was key to the scum team having a chance to win. The setup is meant to make town a little paranoid about a small game having two kinds of protectives whenever claims started to happen. MS’s normal review group’s thoughts about balance have changed since the original design ran as a normal micro. I’m curious how it would fare in a review nowadays, though if anything normal games are more townsided now than they were 4-5 years ago.
theres no investigations, so simply being townier than everyone else wins eventually. fakeclaiming prs works too.
Here we go actually doing this now.
First off, I think it’s very interesting that you asked for a focus on your later-game play, because the area I was going to be the most complimentary of was your early play. You were clearly town from maybe 30% of the way through Day 1, and for a player with your ability to make sense and be heard to be town like that is really gross to have to deal with, because it means you have to nightkill them, and you can’t exactly NK these people with any level of consistency and speed.
Day 1 lynch was scum, it wasn’t your favorite lynch of the day and you were off wagon, but the wagon you were on (Elena) was a perfectly viable one, and ended up being the day 2 lynch. I think my opinions on this differ from a lot of peoples, but when there’s 2 roughly equally difficult and scummy people on day 1, and the one lynched flips scum, I generally always want to also lynch the other, as was done here. I don’t mind the mislynch, and I think the information given (and the chance of blowing the game wide open) is absolutely 100% worth, so I love the day 2 play.
Now, post Elena flip, modkill, and T-Bone dying Night 2, plus all the chaos of the bans and whatnot on day 3, extreme apathy set in. This was not a masterful scumteam by any means, but merely winning through total exhaustion. I don’t have any tips around how to play a game when it isn’t fun anymore
However, I would say that the Aeronaut lynch doesn’t make sense to me (the Radja one does), and neither does the Archwing lynch. You can’t be blamed for Archwing either, as he obvtowned after you were NKed, that blame lies solely with Bins, but I think the Aeronaut lynch is where the game turned from a likely town win to a likely scum win.
I think you knew it too, based on how you talked about having cold feet on lynching xyzzy, but what happened was after T-Bone, Mathdino died, town needed someone to step up. Mina did it to some extent, but the one-two punch of confidence was missing, so the game devolved into chaos and the mob chose the :badposter: instead of someone who was actually scummy. You knew it, you just didn’t fight it enough and engage people directly about it.
That would be my advice on where you could have potentially turned that game, within Day 3 by being more confident (even though you weren’t), or just more forceful.
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Thanks for this! I really appreciate you taking the time.
I asked for the focus on later play because that’s where the game was pretty much lost, yeah. The comments on early game are nice too though.
You’re right in that I definitely should have put up more of a fight against lynching xyzzy but by that point I’m pretty sure I was like " :shrug: maybe they’re right, idk anymore". In general I think my towngames turn out better when I actually push and argue even when I’m not sure.
Thanks again!
Sorry for the delay again!