FTR the reason I self hammered was I was townreading obvtown tn at day 2, but the problem was he was scumreading me, and we were behind, so without full 100% town agreement there’s no way we can get a scum lynch. Plus that means I was on the table and might have been a vig target so it means I have to die to give town a better chance to win and the vig, whoever it was, to shoot right. Unfortunately they shot wrong but everyone makes mistakes!
I guess this means that tn should indeed in future stop getting taken in by KATSUKI’s LIES, but I don’t really know how to give helpful constructive advice for that specific part
I let things go too far, second guessed myself, and voted town
I’ve never actually been obvtown before
I was a lot more right than I thought I was at first, that’s not something I’m used to, so of course I assumed I was wrong on my (chesskid/katsuki) scumreads.
I thought the catch-up posts and reads lists were good. They looked town to me, which is at least half the battle in a mountainous game. You looked assertive in terms of asking players for content - reads lists, asking them for thoughts on other players, etc, but it became pretty repetitive, and other players began to react like they were finding your playstyle and pushes obnoxious (postie at the start of day 2 is a good example of this). The ratio of requests for data versus doing something with the data seemed a little off. It could have been happening outside the game thread, maybe?
I liked that you tried to take on some leadership on day 1 a la post 828 and 835. Did you feel like you were successful?
You weren’t the only person dogpiling srceenplay, but your demands for content from him while continuing to vote him and voicing that he was the best lynch wasn’t going to get him to cooperate with you if he was town. It’s hard to say, of course, but giving him a little bit of slack at that point could have encouraged him to do something besides fight his lynch. As either alignment more content would have been good, but if he was scum even the illusion that your read was softening might have meant some associations hitting the thread.
This was an interesting post. It looked like a srceen townflip wouldn’t change your opinions about your other scumreads, so these reads were independent of each other.
Looking at your day 2 reads, they changed a lot. Your read on postie did a 180 between late day 1 and the start of day 2, for example. You had different people as scum at different times, and to your credit you had every scum in your scumpile at different times, but seemed to be easily pushed away from scumreading the actual scum. Think about what they did to change your mind, and think about whether you gave them a roadmap for changing your mind via the way you presented your reads. Also, think about what contributed to your scumreads of town players and whether the reasons should have been considered scum-indicative.
This post would be a good one to look at in terms of scum-indicativeness since you kept coming back to a scumread on LQ at various points in the game.
How often do you catch scum by focusing on this kind of word choice? Did you have meta reasons to think that LQ was more likely to say “not scum” as one alignment vs another? Also this post has a fair bit of hectoring. “do you care about getting your reads right?” “I want your full reads list I asked for it and you never gave one”.
I feel like these kinds of repetitive requests for information, and then browbeating a player if they didn’t give you what you wanted in their next series of posts, added a lot of low-level content that wasn’t needed in order to form a read of you and may not have helped in forming reads of the players you interacted with, either.
Overall, you often tried to direct town - to put down votes, to consolidate votes, to vote your current scumread, to give reads, to answer questions, etc. But, at the same time, your reads changed a lot. So, if leading, you were switching directions a lot, and if not leading, you were making a lot of noise, not all of which was productive.
Do you feel confident in general about your reads accuracy and your ability to lead. Do you think that this game was anomalous for you? If not, maybe focus on one of those skills and hone it more before trying to do both at once. And try to consolidate your posting a little more. Out of your almost 900 posts in that game, a lot of them were one-liners, and some were repetitive. It’s tempting to respond to every little thing in game (I have a tendency to do this especially when I feel lost, trying to claw my way to some strong reads), but it can overwhelm your own most-meaningful content, as well as giving scum cover and an excuse to hide.
It wasn’t happening outside thread, it’s mostly me. I guess I didn’t do much with Postie’s reads. On leadership, I feel I was slightly successful, mostly gaining votes onto LQ, but I’m glad that I stuck with Screen. I don’t know, I guess in my mind I thought ‘if he can’t explain why he must have faked it’. I did not have meta reasons, this was mostly why I was off and on with him. This was my first time playing with him. I guess I did seem like a jerk with that last request in that post haha.
I do not feel confident in my read accuracy. Usually they are average. My ability to lead, I am no too sure. I was just experimenting in that game. It was slightly anomalous for me, due to LQ (who confused me) and the setup and what tactics scum may try in it. (Cross voting, and being more likely to bus)
What do you feel are good ways to improve each skill? I will probably try improving on my reads first, those need improving. Then leading. I will also try to post less.
The thing that in some ways helped my reads accuracy was to look at posts that pinged scummy to me and see if they could have come from a town mindset: Part of that is the logic in the post, but the tone and emotional content also come into play. A player may have a stance that you know makes no sense, but you still think it’s a town mindset behind the stance (I’ll give an example from one of my games below).
Then you keep reevaluating based on the player’s body of work. You might have gotten a strong townsense from one post, but many of the player’s posts feel null, or too carefully written, or lacking conviction, etc. And you look back based on additional information - flips and associations with flipped scum, PR results (including results on other players that make you re-evaluate the game).
Here’s the example I was thinking about, where the player’s assumption was just wrong, but the conviction they expressed about the assumption looked town.
Sorry for the delay Riley - I told ffery to hold for a bit since I’m making a video analysis of said game that I haven’t finished yet. Fault is mine - will be done soon.
I think PR hunting and using the strongman shot carefully was key to the scum team having a chance to win. The setup is meant to make town a little paranoid about a small game having two kinds of protectives whenever claims started to happen. MS’s normal review group’s thoughts about balance have changed since the original design ran as a normal micro. I’m curious how it would fare in a review nowadays, though if anything normal games are more townsided now than they were 4-5 years ago.
