Deep Space 9 Mafia - Game Over!

[Mantis]

so

VOTE: pyx

There are too many scenarios that make him scum.

1. if cabs is town (tracker) and MS is town - likely no cop*, so likely no miller
2. if cabd is town (tracker), and MS scum - likely no cop*, so likely no miller
3. if cabd is scum (tracker) - MS town - means that scum redirected and tracked MS - pyx viable - but situation, not viable
4. cabds is scum, Ms is scum - pyx viable, but not likely that cabd and MS are scum together

*likely no cop, if there is also a town tracker. too heavy for town. I think scenario 2) seems the most likely.

[Mantis]

1. would work as well. But it would mean that scum are outside of MS and cabd.

[Mantis]

This is based on there not being a town tracker and a town cop

[MetalSonic]

Someone else could have killed muffina and then the scum sent me to redirected to muffina so it works LIKE BOTH a redirect AND a roleblock (because my action would fail, UNLESS I am a doctor (which I am not) then it is the only scenario where it succeed)

[MetalSonic]

Cabd tracking me is a bonus. Maybe he is town and it’s huge coincidence. Or he’s scum and he is full of it.

[Mental (Judge)]

@MetalSonic are you not bothered by CABD saying he tracked you to _ffery, when the PM paraphrase reads like you were put in jail, plus you did not target _ffery for a night action ?

[Mental (Judge)]

scenario: MS hints at having a PR -> jailed. _ffery lets slip they have a PR -> NK

eh, I am talking myself into maybe a CABD lynch

[Mantis]

Don’t be charmed by MS… stay strong…

[Mental (Judge)]

yeah, I think that’s why I have them both on my ‘don’t lynch’ list.

the scenario I just mentioned, with CABD a scum jailer*

or, MS caught killing _ffery and responds with half-assed muddy claim of block/jail/redirect

*but why would they be so specific, if they were a jailer, especially as MS could have arced up immediately

argh I’m not sure which claim is the dodgier one, if they are not both town

as you were

[Mantis]

just look at cabd’s posts versus MS’s posts… it’s what I am mostly doing. skitter seemed pretty town (after looking at her).

I mean, ya, MS could have been jailed.

My opinion is that one needs to be resolved. Otherwise, it’s going to be the same shit tomorrow

[Mental (Judge)]

OK

VOTE: metal sonic

[Josh]

redirecting someone to your kill target is stupid and you know it, just risks you randing the protective and fucking yourself

[Srceenplay]

Scum tracker sounds stupid and scum redirector sounds stupid.

[Josh]

someone claimed a tracker guilty on ms

his immediate response wasnt “you lying fuck”, it was “well maybe I got a generic PM what if I was redirected!”

is that a townie mindset?

[Urist]

It is, if he got a PM that makes it look like he may have been redirected?

[Urist]

Actually last night I thought of something while drifting off and miraculously remembered it this morning.

Cabd tracking MS only to muffins means that, if MS is scum, he is another goon (or scum with a passive role, but I don’t know of any scum passive that apply here). In my view, this means that MS is most likely Town, because I don’t see how scum could survive with just one PR when there seems to be so many town PRs.

[Srceenplay]

Salty

[Urist]

Peppery

[pyx]

All right, let’s talk about me some more.

a role cop would just see “pyx is a miller”. It would defeat the purpose of him being a miller because it would confirm him as town…

parsec and I have made it clear that, “my role appears guilty to alignment cops even though I am aligned with prophets”. That requires an alignment detector not a role detector. A Rolecop would not necessarily see “pyx is a miller”, because that’s not in my role PM. And forgive me again, I personally don’t like talking of role PMs or claiming unnecessarily - I think the game should be solvable the old fashioned way - though I agree that Millers claiming right from the start is how best to play that role. And I say a Rolecop wouldn’t necessarily see “pyx is a miller” because maybe they would or could, but if I don’t have a role title I don’t see how a Rolecop would be given it instead of me, upon investigation.

I do think that what parsec’s has revealed at least tells us there’s likely no Mafia Cop (Mafia Alignment Cop), since I would appear as guilty. Or that at least were there that role it would be redundant regarding me.

And for a TL;DR version of the above, here’s the convo around the parsec claim. It was that reread that had me reevaluate Andres and Urist (no, not the populat law firm), liking Andres better and starting to doubt Urist (I probably should add that parsec took an opposite view).

[And please bear with me - the formatting and preview on this site drives me absolutely bonkers!!]

Summary

[spoiler]

Hey everyone. Claiming now that my role appears guilty to alignment cops even though I am aligned with prophets.

Parsec it seems like you have some experience playing mafia elsewhere, can you link to a previous mafia site where you played?

How does it appear if you’re lynched?

Parsec, why didn’t you describe your role as a miller? It’s standard terminology

After reading some theory, it looks like you have played the role optimally, so I’m not going to question this too much. If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right? Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie? Does that mean that we should expect to see you NK’ed N1? Lots of questions, I know.

Even without a counter-claim, it’s still possible that parsec is lying scum. Miller isn’t a super common or popular role so I don’t think it’s a risky claim, although it does fit a certain character pretty well.

> If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right?

The answer to this is an unequivocal yes. Don’t worry about the rest of the questions in that paragraph.

And why are you answering for Parsec? You should let him tackle the questions I posed, and decide whether some of them are worth answering or not. As I stated, I don’t play many games with a lot of roles, so I haven’t encountered a Miller role. It’s not out of the question that Scum would fakeclaim Miller, from what I read, but in my head it seems unlikely that’s what we’re getting here.

With regard to parsec, there are times when answering certain questions no matter the answer will not benefit town; this is one such time.

Nanook: How does it appear if you’re lynched?

As part of my role.

Which character are you?

Andresvmb: Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie?

Even without a counter-claim, it’s still possible that parsec is lying scum. Miller isn’t a super common or popular role so I don’t think it’s a risky claim, although it does fit a certain character pretty well.

Andresvmb: After reading some theory, it looks like you have played the role optimally, so I’m not going to question this too much. If anyone has a counter claim this is where they would step forward right? Otherwise we should treat you as named Townie? Does that mean that we should expect to see you NK’ed N1? Lots of questions, I know.

@Andresvmb - have you played mafia before? (on this site or elsewhere?)

yep, millers ought to claim in their first post

at this time i don’t think it’s beneficial to either treat him as a named townie or to worry about whether he’s scum fake-claiming. in general play >>>> role and i don’t think we ought to judge parsec’s alignment either way because of his role, but rather based on how he plays.

Andres: As I stated, I don’t play many games with a lot of roles, so I haven’t encountered a Miller role. It’s not out of the question that Scum would fakeclaim Miller, from what I read, but in my head it seems unlikely that’s what we’re getting here.

Can’t say whether it’s likely or not at this point, but fwiw, scum fake claiming Miller is a thing that would happen on my home site. Also not sure how that translates to the meta here, if at all.

I have a far out, radical idea, that will most likely be shot down, but I think if we pursued it en masse it could win us the game (or at the very least, help us tremendously).

Mass reveals.

[There’s a lot of discussion that follows on this, all of which is against Nanook’s proposal. I just include his suggestion to show where I think it originated, in connection to parsec’s reveal.]

addendum: Parsec name claiming is fine.

There’s varied thinking on Miller’s from what I can tell - some people think that they can clear themselves quickly, which would obviate the need to claim and distract away from focusing on the play. Obviously if that person is investigated, you end up with a near certain lynch, but you might end there regardless. However, if we are taking the name at face value, why would we not assume that Parsec is a Prophet?

[After been away a good little while (~16hrs, and like the whole Screen fake-claim), parsec answers Urist’s request of a name claim]

Elim Garak

ActionDan: Parsec, why didn’t you describe your role as a miller? It’s standard terminology

I didn’t know if you used that terminology. Probably would have still been some people here who didn’t know what it meant.

After re-reading I don’t feel very good about my earlier vote on Urist. I still don’t like #46, but I like many of his other posts.

I find Andres’ concerns fake and don’t like the way he is approaching the game

Given your Miller claim, I am trying really hard to get you to help Town and look past me. If you can’t, it is what it is, but you will forgive me if I ignore most of what you say.

[quote=parsec]

i think one of josh/urist is wolf because of the way they attack each others’ play while also calling each other wolves

i think it is a wolfy behavior from both of you but unlikely you are both wolves
[/quote][/spoiler]

[pyx]

And FWIW, all the players from MR know for certain that Miller is pretty common from where we hail, and they know very well, or should, that GM mechanics (not just from myself) on our experimental sites and sister sites could very well be just as the GM here has described and I have previously mentioned.

Deep Space Nine Mafia - 13 of 13 players (Game has begun!)

The game will be role-heavy and may have some unusual hidden or public mechanics.

We certainly don’t have a bastard setup I wouldn’t think, but It would NOT be unusual for the GM to include certain roles some players are excluding in trying to tool or work through game mechanics of which we yet know little. Any shading based on mechanics speculation at this point seems highly suspect to me, even if those using it are claiming such to FOS myself or others. I don’t at all mind trying to sort claims, though we know some have certainly been fake, but trying at this point to solve the balance of the game mechanics with what we have would appear to me as only encouraging the very thing everyone of us was againt from Scum!Nanook yesterday, of mass claiming.

There is absolutely no need to try and solve game mechanics or roles beyond the ones presently claimed.